詹姆斯下赛季会超过乔丹吗（詹姆斯离乔丹的距离还有多远）

名记Zach Lowe：“詹姆斯退役时会是历史第一人（如果现在他还不是的话）。在历史第一人的地位，詹姆斯现在已经和乔丹并驾齐驱了。只要他再打出4个禽兽般的赛季，数据上讲，这个话题将不再有争议。”

Zach Lowe: "Lebron will be the greatest player by the time he retires if he hasn't already, at this moment he is neck and neck with Jordan as the greatest player ever. Once he posts 4 more monster years, statistically there will be no conversation" @32min

Was really shocked to see Zach Lowe make this statement. The definitiveness of his statement was genuinely mind blowing. Stats shouldn't be able to elevate lebron over Jordan moving forward. I find that their is a selective process for when stats get used to boost players legacy. Westbrook should be entering top 20 status if stats mean this much.

我真的被Zach Lowe的言论所震惊了。他话语中的坚定让人听得凌乱。在未来，数据根本无法让詹姆斯超越乔丹啊。我发现人们在评价球员历史地位时总是有选择地使用数据。要是数据真有这么重要的话威少已经是历史前20了。

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[–]RaptorsKawhiGotUsNow 142 指標 5小時前

Westbrook should be entering top 20 status if stats mean this much.

This is much dumber than what Lowe said.

“要是数据真有这么重要的话威少已经是历史前20了。”

你这话说的比Zach Lowe还蠢。

[–][TOR] Bruno CabocloXeibi 160 指標 5小時前

These younglings talking bout LeBron and Jordan...

smh back in my day Bob Cousy was the true GOAT, playing against true defenses and not this malarkey of the 80s, 90s, and 00s.

（模仿厚古薄今言论）现在这些小屁孩成天讨论詹姆斯和乔丹……

唉，我那会儿，鲍勃-库西才是真正的第一人。他面对的可是实打实的严防死守，而不是80、90、00年代这些小儿科。

[–]Lakersshamrock8421 448 指標 5小時前

The title of GOAT will ultimately be bestowed upon he whose version of “Space Jam” is superior.

湖人球迷：历史最佳这个头衔将取决于詹乔二人谁的《空中大灌篮》更好。

[–]NBANot_Me25 114 指標 3小時前

No way any new Space Jam touches the old one. Not a chance

新版《大灌篮》绝对不可能超过老版。没有一点可能。

[–][UTA] Donovan MitchellHydromorfiend 80 指標 2小時前

Nostalgia is a powerful thing

怀旧的力量很强大的。

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[–]Twoweekswithpay 811 指標 5小時前*

I was there for Jordan, and yes, we were spoiled by the narrative that one guy is all it takes to win a championship, when in reality, it was the mix of the best player, an unusually unselfish great #2 in Pippen, good mix of role players, and a head coach/coaching staff that just knew how to maximize the best out of all their players.

当年乔丹还在打球的时候我就看了。没错，我们都被那种“一个人就能拿总冠军”的舆论说法给宠坏了。现实中，夺冠需要最好的球员、一个像皮蓬一样非常无私的二当家、各种优秀角色球员和知道如何最大化利用球员的教练/制服组。

In this fashion, Steph Curry is having the career MJ had. But the league is covered in a more nuanced way now and more people watch players on a night-in, night-out basis to recognize the difference between great stats and great players.

从这种角度来考虑，那库里正在经历乔丹经历过的生涯。但联盟现在被覆盖推广的方式更细，越来越多的人会看球员的每场比赛，他们能明白豪华的数据和优秀的球员之间的区别。

For me, I did think 6-0 trumped everything but with Lebron, i’ve Come to realize that it does matter who your teammates and coaches are. Lebron has never had a phil Jackson. Had Lebron joined the warriors instead Of Cleveland way back when after Miami, we’d be talking about him as the greatest ever, due to his likely 7th title this year. But, he chose the hard way and won one for Cleveland.

于我而言，我之前确实觉得总决赛六胜零负能压倒一切，但看到詹姆斯，我开始理解队友和教练确实很重要。詹姆斯从来没有自己的菲尔-杰克逊。要是詹姆斯离开热火后没有回骑士而是加入勇士，我们现在就会认为他是历史最伟大球员，因为那样以来，到了今年，他应该都已经拿了七个冠军了。但他选择了回家，为克利夫兰赢得了一座奖杯。

Michael had a lot of things working for him, including being drafted into a major market from the start. The one area that is hard to quantify though that seemingly gives MJ the edge is that in the way Lebron seemingly had a psychological grip on the raptors, michael had that over the entire league during his 6 titles. That’s something that really has only been seen a couple times since with Tiger Woods or Serena Williams, and those are individual sports.

乔丹的助力很多，包括他从一开始就是被大球市选中的。不过乔丹有一个优势似乎是难以衡量的：詹姆斯好像从心理上就把猛龙拿住了，而乔丹在6冠期间几乎是全联盟的心理阴影。这是体育史上很仅有的现象，类似的还有老虎伍兹和小威，而那都是个人运动了。

The Bull’s dominance, only when MJ was on the team, led to a false equivalency, however, between being “the best player” and “winning a championship.” But, that’s okay. I think Lebron wins a championship with the lakers and he’ll be the first one to win 3 finals mvp’s for 3 franchises. He’ll be in the statistical top 5 all time in scoring and assists. And he’ll have the distinction of the greatest of his generation.

不过，乔丹公牛的统治力造成了一种错误的等式，让人误以为“最好的球员”就得“赢总冠军”。但我觉得这也没啥毛病啦，我觉得詹姆斯最终会在湖人夺冠，成为第一个在三支球队都拿到FMVP的球员。而他的总得分和助攻数据会排到历史前五。而且他还有这个时代第一人的头衔。

We’ll appreciate him much more after he’s gone. We’ll remember him as the guy who survived and thrived in the social media age without any major blips. And, he’ll leave us all in a better place from a fan’s perspective in knowing that in team sports, the best players give you the potential to win a championship, but to actually win it, it takes more than just “The Man.”

在詹姆斯退役之后，我们将更加能够充分地欣赏他。到时候，我们记忆中的詹姆斯就是一个在参残酷挑剔的社交媒体时代成功存活下来并如鱼得水的人，没有留下大的污点。并且，詹姆斯将会使我们球迷能够对篮球有更好的理解：在团队运动中，最好的球员有潜力帮一支球队赢得冠军，但赢得冠军真正所需要的东西要远比“那个人”多得多。

[–]crowntheking 210 指標 5小時前

This is a really great comment..

The Steph curry comparison is interesting and even if he wins this year no one is going to be calling him the greatest of all time. His situation is a lot more similar to Jordan's then LeBron's ever has been

真的是好评论啊。

库里和乔丹的对比很有趣，即使库里今年也夺冠，还是没人会称他为历史第一。

其实他的境遇相对詹姆斯来说和乔丹更相近。

[–]WizardsMarmaladeFugitive 115 指標 4小時前

KD robbed us of peak Curry. He probably wouldn't end up the greatest ever...but I sure as fuck wanted to see him try for it.

杜兰特偷走了球迷看到“巅峰库里”的机会。库里大概率永远也成不了历史第一了……但我之前是真的想看他冲这个目标努努力啊。

[–]Celticskilltasticfever 64 指標 4小時前

Not really, steph has MUCH more in terms of help/team than jordan ever did.

凯尔特人球迷：不太算吧。库里得到的帮助/他的队友比乔丹强得多。

[–]peppermintpattymills 75 指標 4小時前

Displaying a Finals record as 6-0 is super misleading because it implies that 6-0 is better than 6-2. That's what bugs me about saying Jordan never lost a Finals. He also didn't make a Finals for the first like seven years of his career or whatever.

“总决赛六胜零负”这种话有点误导性，因为这就是在暗示“6-0比6-2”要好。这就是我听人说乔丹从没输过总决赛时感到别扭的原因。因为他生涯前七年都没进过总决赛呢。

[–]76ersmatgopack 56 指標 3小時前

Agreed.

Playoff overall record: MJ: 119-60 (66.5%)

Lebron: 154-79 (66.1%)

Almost identical, with a larger volume for Lebron.

同意。

季后赛数据：乔丹119胜60负，胜率66.5%

詹姆斯154胜79负，胜率（66.1%）。

基本没区别，詹姆斯的场次还更多。

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[–][OKC] Raymond FeltonDTttfu 368 指標 6小時前

Statistically definitely but not in accolades

雷霆球迷：数据肯定是，但荣誉不可能。

[–][GSW] Stephen Curryec20 180 指標 5小時前

I understood Zach to mean that the greater longevity of strong statistical seasons, combined with the accolades Lebron does have, would make him the GOAT.

So not necessarily that peak Lebron was better than peak Jordan, but that Lebron's peaks combined with his longevity should make him the GOAT.

勇士球迷：我明白Zach的意思，他是说詹姆斯数据漂亮的赛季会持续得更久，再加上詹姆斯获得的荣誉，这两个因素加起来将使得他超越乔丹。

所以他的意思也不一定是说巅峰詹姆斯比巅峰乔丹强，而是詹姆斯的巅峰能力 他持久的常青生涯会使他超越乔丹。

[–][DAL] Steve Nashaceofspadez138 61 指標 4小時前

But then one can raise the argument that modern medicine/sports science better equips players nowadays to have greater longevity. Jordan came back after three years of retirement and averaged nearly averaged 23/6/5 at age 38. And at age 39, he averaged nearly 20/6/4.

独行侠球迷：但我同样也可以争辩说现代医疗/体育科学更发达，能帮助球员们取得更久更常青的职业生涯啊。乔丹退休三年后回来还能在38岁时场均23 6 5。他39岁时还能场均接近20 6 4。

I'm not saying that's enough to trump LeBron's longevity or anything (especially given that he started earlier than Jordan, and will never have taken time off in between), because it's heavily hypothetical, but just saying that people will bring that up.

我不是说乔丹那两年的表现就足以让他超过詹姆斯的常青水平（尤其考虑到詹姆斯进入联盟比乔丹早，而且这期间没有给自己放年假），因为这里的假设成分很大。我只是说肯定会有人提出我争辩的这个观点啊。

[–]RaptorsTheToogood 103 指標 4小時前

but LeBron has been proven to be an anomaly even today

猛龙球迷：然而詹姆斯已经证明了，即使在如今的时代，他也是个反常。

[–]Bullscobrakaistrikefree 92 指標 4小時前

the flip side is that due to modern medicine or whatever the league now is more talented than it ever has been. lebron has played his entire prime in the most talent-laden era in NBA history. i still have him behind mj but it wouldnt surprise me if bron was widely considered the goat in 10-15 years

（回复那位独行侠球迷）

公牛球迷：你的论点的另一面是，由于现代医疗这类科学的发展，现在NBA天赋水平比以前高多了。詹姆斯的整个巅峰都是在NBA历史上天赋最丰富的时代中度过的。不过我还是把他排在乔丹之后，但如果10-15年后他被广泛认为是历史第一，我也不会惊讶。

[–]little_shit_timmy 57 指標 4小時前

Thank you. All Stars take up 1% of the league, and we can subjectively debate which era has the better all-stars. What about the 99%? LeBron on average played against more skilled and athletic players than Jordan did - and that's not subjective, that's a fact.

谢谢。全明星占全联盟的1%，我们当然可以主观地评价哪个时代的全明星是最强的。那剩下的99%呢？平均来看，詹姆斯的对手比乔丹的对手技术更好、运动能力更强——这可不是主观臆断，是事实。

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[–]delont3west 128 指標 6小時前*

No shit he'll have the edge in stats as he'll have played much longer, no one is going to argue Jordan had better longevity than LeBron (or Kareem).

But while he has less volume stats, Jordan got far more individual accolades in his fewer seasons.

詹姆斯最后数据上会更有优势不是废话嘛。因为他到退役之时，出场时间和年份会比乔丹长得多，没人会争辩说乔丹的生涯比詹姆斯（或贾巴尔）更常青。

Edit: Jordan had more MVPs, more scoring titles, more steals titles, more all-defense first teams, DPOY, the highest career PER in regular season history, the highest career PER in playoff history, the highest career WS/48 in regular season history, the highest career WS/48 in playoff history

编辑：乔丹有更多的MVP、得分王、抢断王和一防次数，还有最佳防守球员、常规赛历史上最高的生涯PER、季后赛历史上最高的生涯PER、常规赛历史上最高的生涯每48分钟胜利贡献值、季后赛历史上最高的生涯每48分钟胜利贡献值。

[–]Raptorspleasefeedthedino 56 指標 5小時前

It’s not even just accolades. It’s how they played the game. LeBron is a legend but he just hasn’t been as consistent in his greatness as Jordan was.

猛龙球迷：不只是荣誉，还有打法。詹姆斯是一个传奇，但没有乔丹那样自始至终的伟大。

[–]Lakersso-cal_kid 112 指標 5小時前

Nor dominant. Jordan thoroughly dominated his era. Granted Lebron ran into this Warriors dynasty, but even before that he lost to the Mavs and Spurs. Jordan laid waste to everyone he faced at his peak.

湖人球迷：也没有乔丹那样的统治力。乔丹完完全全统治了他那个时代。我承认，詹姆斯确实撞上了勇士王朝，但即便在这之前，他也输给过独行侠和马刺。而巅峰乔丹则让所有对手都饮恨了。

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[–]CavaliersJjab430 41 指標 5小時前

How many rings do you think Jordan would have if Hakeem, Barkley, Miller, and Mutombo teamed up in the middle of his prime?

骑士球米：如果大梦、巴克利、米勒、穆托姆博组成一队，你觉得乔丹还能在他巅峰期赢得几个冠军？

[–]WestVerySadAllTheTime 68 指標 5小時前

On the other hand how many rings do you think he’d have if he teamed up with Stockton and Robinson

换个角度来看，如果乔丹和斯托克顿、大卫-罗宾逊组队的话，他会拿下几个冠军呢？

[–][CHI] Rajon Rondobluemagic124 82 指標 5小時前

Scottie Pippen is a HOF level talent in his own right

公牛球迷：皮蓬已经是名人堂级别的天赋了。

[–]peppermintpattymills 40 指標 4小時前

The '94 Bulls won 55 games, Pippen averaged 22.0/8.7/5.6 with 2.9spg and they went seven games in the Eastern conference semis.

The '16 Cavs without LeBron probably wouldn't win 40 games or make the playoffs. Yeah Kyrie and Love are good. No they aren't that good.

94公牛赢了55场比赛，皮蓬场均22 8.7 5.6 2.9抢断。然后他们在东部半决赛中把对手拖入了抢七。

2016的那支骑士如果没有詹姆斯的话，多半赢不到40场比赛，也大概率进不了进季后赛。

欧文和乐福确实很棒，但没有那么棒。

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[–]CelticsBillygoatsinbed 86 指標 6小時前

Yeah statistically LeBron is the greatest of all time but Jordan has him beat in accolades

凯尔特人球迷：嗯，数据上詹姆斯确实是历史第一，但乔丹在荣誉上胜出。

[–]Bucksniceboy03 63 指標 5小時前

Even statistically lebron isn’t. It would be wilt

即使数据上看詹姆斯也不是历史第一，应该是张伯伦。

[–]pianomormon 129 指標 5小時前

If we're talking about statistical consistency and longevity, its not Wilt that makes a case against LeBron, it'd be Kareem.

如果咱讨论的是数据方面的稳定性和持久性，那詹姆斯的对手就不是张伯伦了，应该是贾巴尔。

[–][DEN] Nikola JokicRedSoxEatPoop 50 指標 6小時前

Well I guess volume statistic wise...Jordan retired twice which helps out a lot lol

I love Bron but there isn't going to be a real debate until he wins another ring and although people on here don't want to hear that, it's 100% true.

E: I guess he technically retired 3 times but the point stands

额，那大概从数据的总量上来看是这样……乔丹退役了两次啊，这可帮了詹姆斯大忙了哈哈哈！

我喜欢詹姆斯，但在他再赢一个冠军之前还是没什么可争论的，即使话题区的人们不喜欢听，但事实就是这样。

编辑：严格地说，乔丹是退役了三次，但对我的观点没有影响。

[–][LAL] Kobe BryantTOP_5_DOA 56 指標 5小時前

MJ averaged 30/6/5 on 50% shooting and 2.3 steals in his regular season career 33/6/6 on 49% shooting and 2.1 steals in his playoff career 34/6/6 on 48% and nearly 2 steals in his Finals career

湖人球迷：乔丹常规赛场均30 6 5，命中率50%，场均2.3抢断；季后赛场均33 6 6，命中率49%，场均2.1抢断；总决赛场均34 6 6，命中率48%，场均接近2抢断。

Also DPOY, 10 time scoring champ, 3 time steals leader. All this while only playing 18 games in his 2nd season due to injury and playing only 17 games in 95 after coming back from retirement. MJ is the GOAT

他还是最佳防守球员，10次得分王，3次抢断王。而且他第二个赛季因伤只出战了18场，95年复出后只打了17场。乔丹就是历史第一。

,